Azerbaijan's opposition's biggest problem is itself - INTERVIEW | Modern.az

"The theories we read from old books have collapsed." "Why should a 15 percent duty be imposed on baby food and medicine?" "Erkin Gadirli is interested in Azer Gasimli's family." "Sevinj Osmangizi cut and shared my interview from 2 years ago, a person cannot be this vile." "Erkin Gadirli is offended by the media." Natig Jafarli, chairman of the REAL Party, was a guest of the Modern.az editorial office. We had an extensive conversation with the party chairman about global processes, as well as domestic political issues. - Mr. Natig, welcome. Let's start with the agenda. President Ilham Aliyev recently visited China. This is his second official visit to that country within a year. It seems that Azerbaijan has high expectations from China. What are Baku's main expectations from Beijing? - China holds a very important place in the world economy today. According to some calculations, China has even surpassed the US in terms of Gross Domestic Product. I say "some calculations" because it's not possible to get all statistical data in China. The country is somewhat closed. Also, not all economic activity in the regions is official. According to calculations by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, one-third of China's economy is a shadow economy. If we consider the shadow economy, China has surpassed the US in terms of GDP. Therefore, China is an important country. Azerbaijan has two major expectations from China. The first expectation is related to investments. We see that China attaches importance to the South Caucasus. In the next 10 years, investment projects worth 8 billion dollars are expected to be implemented with Georgia. Even the construction of an electric car factory is being considered. China is building a large port in Georgia. All this indicates China's growing potential. Large investment projects are being implemented in Asia and Africa. Azerbaijan also wants Chinese investments to flow into our country. Considering the state of the Azerbaijani market and economy, approximately 10 billion dollars in investment can be attracted, and this will be a very significant step forward. This also means thousands of jobs. There is a need for investments in East Zangazur and Karabakh. The second expectation and direction of activity is logistics, meaning the development of new routes. One of the projects China attaches great importance to is the "One Belt, One Road" initiative. The Middle Corridor intersects with this project. Azerbaijan is also trying to utilize this intersection. Azerbaijan is trying to establish a major link between China and the European Union via the Zangazur corridor. The trade turnover between the European Union and non-EU European countries with China is over 1 trillion dollars. Azerbaijan is trying to get a share of this large cargo turnover of 1 trillion dollars. Cargo transportation via railway and automobile roads passing through Azerbaijan is more profitable. This is also profitable for China because its only access to Europe was through Russia. Now there are problems there because Russia is under sanctions. To put it mildly, foreign companies do not transport cargo without insurance. Insuring cargo passing through Russia also becomes a problem due to sanctions. This is because the center of international insurance companies is London, and London does not insure those cargoes. Therefore, new routes are needed. It is also in China's interest to deliver a part of this 1 trillion dollar trade turnover to Europe via the Middle Corridor through Azerbaijan. In terms of time, this route is shorter than the Russian route. Cargoes reach Europe via Russia in 26 days, while via Azerbaijan, they reach in 14-16 days. This means a saving of approximately 10 days. This period is very important for the economy and trade turnover. The Azerbaijani route is more profitable in terms of time and security. Over the years, the only problems were related to tariffs. Now, as far as I know, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Turkey have reached a general agreement on a single tariff. A single tariff policy means that a businessman sending a container from China will make a single payment and will not have to negotiate with individual countries. Azerbaijan-China relations have very great prospects in terms of investment and logistics. - Some people think that after the war ends, China will again go to Europe via Russia, and the Middle Corridor project will take a back seat. How true do you think these claims are? - In my opinion, even if the Ukraine-Russia war ends, Russia-West relations will not be able to improve. - They said the same thing in 2014... - The situation was different then. In 2014, there was no war; the Russians simply quietly seized Crimea before the eyes of the world, without firing a single shot. A few Crimean Tatars resisted there, but there was no other significant resistance. Now, if we consider both sides, nearly 2 million people have died and been injured. This means the consequences of this war will last a long time. Even if a ceasefire is declared, the lifting of all sanctions against Russia and the return of its assets will take a long time. I even think this might only be possible in the post-Putin era. Let's assume that the route through Russia reopens. After all, the route through Azerbaijan is shorter and more effective. I mean, what's 26 days compared to 14 days? Therefore, the route through Azerbaijan may see more demand. - Economic agreements have also been signed with America. Is it possible for Baku to choose between two major powers? Or will we work with both poles? - There is a myth, both globally and here, that if you trade with the US, you cannot trade with China, and vice versa. The US and China themselves are the largest trading partners. Last year, their trade turnover was 683 billion dollars. This means the US is the largest investor in China, and China is the largest investor in the US. China has 3 trillion dollars in investments in the US. Therefore, it is a myth that small countries must choose. There is no such thing. Azerbaijan can work with both China and the US. There is no problem here. Because there are no sanctions against China that would make the US irritated by our working with China despite them. Therefore, Azerbaijan is trying to find the golden mean here. I think this is possible. China has major trading partners who are also the US's number one political and economic partners. We have reached a situation where the theories we read from old books and built in our minds have collapsed. New concepts are emerging. Here, too, I think black-and-white approaches and dogmas will take a back seat. We are slowly seeing this. In general, the world is pregnant with new rules of the game. The UN and economic laws no longer work. For example, the World Trade Organization. The reason for its creation was to eliminate all artificial barriers to trade. Now everyone is imposing sanctions on each other. Slowly, new rules are emerging. This process will take 3-5 years. After the new rules are established, countries that can find the golden mean, that is, those capable of building normal relations with everyone, will be more prominent in the new configuration. - When economic agreements were signed with China, some economists said that investments would be made in railways and artificial intelligence. Now, similar claims are emerging because an economic agreement has been signed with the US. However, some experts claim that foreign countries are not interested in investing in Azerbaijan. You always cite the lack of an investment environment as the reason for this. What do you think, is Azerbaijan a favorable country for foreign investment...? - There's an interesting story. Abdul Hamid II saw that he was losing in armament, so he called his pashas and ordered them to buy weapons from Great Britain and other countries. The pashas said, "Long live the Sultan, we are rivals, they won't sell us weapons." At that point, he said, "Go, build a factory, let's produce them ourselves." They said there were no engineers. They brought engineers from Germany and France, paying high sums. After some time, they said the engineers were leaving. The Sultan asked the reason, "Is their money low?" They replied, "They have money, but there are no doctors." This time the ruler said, "Build a hospital." Then the pashas said there were no doctors, so they found and brought them from abroad. Two months later, they came again saying the doctors and engineers were leaving. They cited the lack of education and schools as the reason; they wanted to send their children to school. At this point, a French lyceum was opened. The point is, he wanted one weapon, and look what steps he was forced to take. Eventually, even restaurants were allowed to open in Nişantaşı. It's the same with us. I am sure the government wants investment. Who wouldn't?! But for that, you need to take 10 steps. Azerbaijan is a small country. There are also objective reasons, independent of us, for investors. They are hesitant to invest in a market of 10 million. Therefore, we must be a part of the regional market. We must be a part of the South Caucasus, Middle East market, a gateway for access to Russia and Iran, to create interest for investors. Why should I come and open a phone factory for a 10-million market? This is an objective reason. The subjective reason is related to legislation. Azerbaijan has excessively regulatory laws that are in a disgraceful state. Azerbaijan adopted and implemented the disgraceful laws of the European Union. They try to regulate everything. The reason for Europe's current economic decline and collapse is excessive regulation, Sovietization. As many regulatory rules were applied in Soviet times, it is the same in Europe now. Many tax and customs laws in Azerbaijan have also been adopted from the European Union. Azerbaijan should have its own path. Why should European customs duties be the same as duties in Azerbaijan? Why should a 15 percent duty be imposed on baby food and medicine? Do we produce these? We don't have technology production; you can't even bring two phones into the country. Look, all these are factors that indicate a weak investment environment in the country and push investors away. One of the reasons for this is the judiciary. The judiciary must work very quickly and flexibly. There are 512 judges in such a large country. If you apply to the economic court, it takes more than a year. I am losing money. Kazakhstan, during Nursultan Nazarbayev's time, separated economic courts and invited judges from England. It allowed investors to make demands in English. If you say the judiciary should be in English, our nationalists will say, "You don't love your homeland, you are a traitor." Why? Let one court be in English. The point is that international investors are "timid gazelles"; wherever they see a problem, they run away. You have to create so many conditions for them and pamper them so that they choose you. We think that investors should come and beg us to allow them to invest here. That's not how it is. There are no such investors in the world. The car companies that are in Uzbekistan today first came to Azerbaijan. They came, and after 6 months, they fled to Uzbekistan. Their advantage was that they were 30 million, and now they have reached 40 million. Investors demand pampering. If you invest in the regions, the executive head kicks the door and says, "I'm also a partner." There is also a socio-political reason. Investors always want new rules of the game. For example, in Azerbaijan in the 90s, a "Pub" culture suddenly emerged. Those "Pubs" were opened due to the arrival of 4000 workers from England and Scotland. It wouldn't have occurred to us that "BP" would extract oil here, and "Pubs" would emerge. The arrival of a large volume of investors requires different rules of the game. The current system, in my opinion, is not ready for this. In Dubai, the situation suddenly changed. Because they understood that if they want to attract investors, it's not just about lowering taxes. It's possible by adapting to their lifestyle. Formally, there is no alcohol sale in Dubai, but it is everywhere. - Vafa Guluzade always said that Russia would collapse. You also often write that Europe will collapse. What is happening in Europe? Some say the reason for the crisis in Europe is a lack of leadership. - The first symptoms began after the collapse of the USSR. In sports, there's a similar thing: if your "sparring partner" isn't strong, you lose form. Europe's "sparring partner" was the USSR; they were afraid, cautious, and kept themselves in check. Figuratively speaking, they were training. Then the training ended, and they let themselves go. The USSR collapsed, and they saw no rival. They said it was the end of civilization. Their biggest mistake was that. They believed that Russia would collapse any day now, and everything would be over. That is, they couldn't correctly grasp the lessons from history. In recent years, I criticize the European Union more because, since 2008-2009, especially after the events in Georgia, we discussed this 30 times at various conferences in Europe. At that time, they considered these ideas marginal, saying, "It's nonsense, what are they talking about? Don't we know what we're doing? Are you smarter than us?" When the events in Georgia happened, they did nothing against Russia. In 2007, Vladimir Putin gave his Munich speech. The man openly said, "I am coming, and we will use military force to defend our interests." They ignored this. In the early 2000s, conditions were ripe to embrace and suffocate Russia; they wanted membership in NATO and the European Union. If they had been members, all these events would not have happened now. When Yeltsin made such a proposal in 1997, they didn't allow it, saying, "You are weak." In 2001-2002, Putin wanted it, and they said, "Who are you to be a member of European civilization?" They chased Russia until they turned it into a "monster." When Crimea was occupied in 2014, they did nothing. When events happened in Donbass, they also did nothing. When the current war in Ukraine started after 2022, I tried to explain it to them at several major events. There were conferences with Presidents and Prime Ministers among them. They said that human losses in Russia would lead to large protests. That is, when 30-40 thousand Russians died, the population would gather in front of the Kremlin and say either "Stop the war" or "Putin resign." I felt like laughing; I told them, "You probably don't know Russian history." Sovietology was strong because they were afraid. But there was no Russology. I said that when Peter the Great built St. Petersburg, 100,000 peasants died. They told him, "Long live the Emperor, they are dying." He said, "They are meant to die." These are in the archives of history. They killed 100,000 people building a city; in war, they will kill 500,000 or even 1 million, and they won't care. We explained a million times regarding sanctions that it is impossible to block money and ideology in the world. Money and ideas find their way. Even during the harshest period of the Soviets, there were opposition forces, publishing newspapers and magazines. They operated during the most severe times because it's an idea; how will you stop it, you won't kill everyone, will you? On the other hand, money. If there is money, a way will be found for everything. Russia says, "I have money, come, I need microchips." It will come one way or another, even from Armenia. They didn't want to understand this. "In two years, enough 'Trumps' will emerge in Europe." Henry Kissinger best spoke about the fundamental mistakes of Europeans. When the European Union was founded, a CNN journalist called him and asked, "The European Union has been founded, what are your heartfelt words for them?" He said, "Do they have a phone? Let me call and tell them my heartfelt words." What does this mean? Who has the European Union's phone? In his later speeches, Kissinger also said that they should be the United States of Europe, meaning there should be a centralized government. This is also not possible. Because the historical development and current level of development of European nations are completely different. The South and the North are very different. There was even an idea of dividing into leagues. You cannot unite Germany with Greece, Belgium with Bulgaria; it's impossible. If they had divided into two leagues, that would be another matter. The lack of common governance and philosophy also showed its effect. And one of the most important issues has now emerged. The issue is that there are leaders like Fico and Orban. It is also possible to predict that in two years, enough "Trumps" will emerge in Europe. They also want their own interests. Even if Europe does not collapse, a process of weakening its central power will occur, meaning national states will strengthen. Business says that national legislations in Europe were already suffocating me; you can't even hammer a nail into the wall. National legislation is very strict. On top of this came "over-regulation," the European Union's regulatory mechanisms. What good is it, I'm dying here. For example, a person who wants to open a restaurant in Prague takes more than 2 years. You have to sort out the documents and get permission. Yes, the difference with us is that there is no bribery. I had an Italian friend who used to say, "Why do you speak so badly about bribery? If you can pay and get your work done, it's a good thing" (laughs...). There is no bribery there, but there is red tape. You can't even get basic internet. It takes 1-2 months. When my son was a student in France, he couldn't get internet in his home for 2 months. These excessive regulations put Europe in a difficult situation. Now we also see the complete collapse of industrialization. If we delve a little deeper and look at the issues from above, one reason for this war was that the US wanted to break the energy ties between Russia and Europe. This happened. The US used to supply 20 billion cubic meters of gas, and now this has increased to 80 billion cubic meters. They bought from Russia for 230 dollars, and the US sells for 50 dollars. This is the issue. If you don't have cheap energy carriers, you will lose in industrialization. Also, the EU still cannot manage to get out of its comfort zone, nor does it even imagine doing so. No matter how crazy they call Trump, he says many things correctly. For 80 years, European countries entrusted their defense to the US. They directed the money they didn't spend on the military towards social life, becoming socialist. The USSR also played a role here because its narrative was growing. Communists were winning in Italy and Greece. After the war, it spread in Europe that free housing was provided in the USSR. People die for free things. Free housing, healthcare, education – this narrative grew so much in Europe that European governments started distributing social rights out of fear of Bolshevism and communism. In the 80s, they suddenly realized that the average US citizen lived worse than Europeans. A Belgian citizen lived better than a US citizen. US President Ronald Reagan first voiced this, saying, "What's going on? We spend trillions on your security, and you spend on migrants and your own population, living better than us?" After that, Democrats came to power, and liberal democrats won worldwide. They approached issues completely differently. Europe still hasn't woken up. It's against tourism, saying, "Don't come." But you earn money. They don't drop silly issues like climate change and gender issues from their agenda. If this is your agenda, you will get stuck here. Today, China says, "I'm building a colony on the Moon," and Elon Musk talks about building a colony on Mars. And you're asking, "Are you a woman or a man?" Your agenda should be tourism and production. Services were always stronger in European Union countries. You're losing in both services and production, what will be the end result? It seems to me that disintegration is happening there right now. The idea of the European Union is not bad; it's just that not enough work was done to fill its substance, and countries with different economic situations cannot be put into the same union. You could have called them partner countries of the European Union and included all of us there. Market prices in Europe differ significantly. Why? In Poland, you eat and drink and pay 20 euros. Eat the same meal in Belgium, and you'll pay 150 euros. Such a large imbalance cannot exist in the same union, the same economic space. Poland and the Czech Republic are not adopting the euro. Everyone should have been happy, so why did this happen? Because when you have your own currency, it's possible to regulate internal fluctuations. Sometimes you go into inflation, lowering or raising prices. Central banks can function. But here, they can't. The Central Bank in Brussels or Berlin makes a decision, and you have to implement it. Therefore, I think the steps towards disintegration will continue seriously. In the next 2-3 years, political forces that are excessively skeptical of the European Union may come to power. "Tension between Russia and Azerbaijan will significantly decrease by December." - How can we resolve the tension in Russia-Azerbaijan relations? Can Russia pose any real threats? - Firstly, Russia is the one creating the tension. Therefore, Russia itself must eliminate the tension. It appears that it is making efforts to do so. Put the rhetoric aside. What Solovyov and others said is not important. We need to look at actions. Shahin Musafayev met with Alexey Overchuk, and the head of the Russian Senate visited Azerbaijan. It seems to me that the tension will significantly decrease by December. Primarily because Russia formally states that the investigation process will conclude in December, and then they will express their views. When the investigation is over, they will say, "What did we say? We were waiting for the process to be fully completed." They will apologize and provide compensation. The punishment of criminals may not happen, because Putin does not punish military personnel. I think differently about the diaspora. This is not an issue related to Azerbaijan. There is one diaspora left as an institutional force in Russia. A struggle is underway to seize this power. For example, in Yekaterinburg, the FSB appointed its close associate. They understand that if 1,000 or 10,000 people can gather in one place with a single call or WhatsApp message, this is a threat. This is not purely an issue related to Azerbaijan; they treat Uzbeks, Tajiks, Armenians, and everyone else this way. Because diaspora power is a deterrent. Half a million people came out and prayed in Moscow during Eid al-Fitr. They were furious. Solovyov says, "What if they came for a rally instead of prayer?" Therefore, the migrant aspect of what is happening in Russia is a bit different. The migrant issue is not about attacking someone just because they are Azerbaijani. They want to influence or divide migrants. For example, Azerbaijan will have 15 diasporas instead of 1, and Uzbeks will have 20 instead of 15. "Divide and rule," that's it. Russia will exert pressure on two issues: the market and migrants. Nothing else. Relations will improve. This is a good thing. Azerbaijan is tired of wars and tensions. It is time to move towards peace-building and welfare-building in the South Caucasus. It is also important to know that a bear lives in the north. You maintain normal relations with it so that it doesn't eat your chickens. Azerbaijan is doing a lot in this regard. Georgia and Armenia are in a worse situation than us. Azerbaijan at least has the Shusha Declaration, an agreement with Pakistan, and ties with Israel. - A dual situation has arisen in Iran against Azerbaijan. How do you think this will end? This is not only related to foreign policy; there are also dual opinions on domestic issues. - Azerbaijan is also building a road from Iran. There will be no railway. The reason for this is the differences in railway gauge. There, they use European standards, while we followed the standards of the Russian Empire. There is also a solution to this problem. An automobile road passes through Iran. Azerbaijan made a gesture. It seems to me that the Zangazur road will not pass through the zero point of the border. There is no need for it either. When it passes 1-2 kilometers away, all questions from Iran and Russia are closed. Because Russia says it is at the border, but you are not on the road. If we put aside the conservative wing between Iran and Azerbaijan, there should be no problems. There are quite a lot of common interests between Azerbaijan and Iran. If they put chauvinism aside, they can earn money. - Speaking of Iran, there have been comments recently that there will be a new war with Israel by December, and it will be bloodier. Could this war also affect Azerbaijan? - Even if there is a war between Iran and Israel, it is not a classic war. There are no ground troop battles. There are air attacks. With this, you cannot defeat a country; at most, you can destroy infrastructure. If you hit Israel, it will hit you back. Political issues come to the forefront even more. The current Israeli government will not be able to stay in power without a war. There must be tension somewhere for the government to prolong its rule. Therefore, there might be tension in November or December. This will not lead to the resolution of any issue. Americans and Israel, in my opinion, made a very big mistake. They thought there would be an uprising against the regime. They don't know the East and Russia. In Eastern societies, on the contrary, if your state is attacked, you try to protect it more firmly. You might even hate it, but you must protect your state. - You frequently travel to Georgia. The situation there is also expected to become complicated again. A new criminal case has been opened against Saakashvili. In general, what awaits Georgia? - I think Europe pursued a wrong policy in escalating its relations with Georgia. The fault is not Georgia's. Their demands are against Georgia being an independent state. It's impossible to demand such things from an independent state. This problem also has institutional and personal reasons. When did the problems start? Ivanishvili's 2 billion euros in Swiss banks were frozen. They said he earned it from Russia. So what? Who hasn't earned money in Russia until today? Moreover, Ivanishvili left Russia in 2004 and withdrew his assets. Personal problems began. Personal relations have always played a role in the escalation of relations. History has also written this. Even wars have started due to personal issues. The institutional problem arose when European Union countries started making very illogical demands on Georgia. For example, the Georgian Parliament adopted the "Law on Foreign Agents." This is a translation of the law adopted by the US in 1937. They called it a Russian law. The essence of that law is that media and NGOs financed 25 percent from abroad must inform the state about it. What's wrong with that?! In general, why shouldn't an NGO be interested in being transparent? You are an NGO, fighting for transparency. It seems that this became an excuse to bring people to the streets. The second law was related to sexual minorities. Georgia is an extremely religious country. If they were Muslims, all terrorist organizations would be there. The church plays a serious role in their lives. You understand the elderly, but even young people must make the sign of the cross when passing by a church. You come to a religious country and tell them to adopt a law about LGBT. After all, this is foolishness. I have said this in Brussels and at meetings in Prague that you are acting foolishly. You should go and demand from Georgia that the judiciary and police work better, and make demands related to the business environment. At this point, frankly, they cannot find words. The business environment is superb. There's a 1% tax for the government; what could be better than that? The judiciary is normal. I'm not talking about political cases, you know those yourselves. In economic cases, you can win against the ministry. I know people who have done so. There are those who have won against the Tax Service. The Tax Service apologized, returned the money, and even paid compensation. The police don't take a single manat in bribes. When they couldn't find anything to say about these, they went and got stuck on other issues. The biggest problem between the European Union and Georgia is that the EU has nothing to offer Georgia in return for its demands. They ask, "Why do you trade with Russia?" The trade turnover between Georgia and Russia is approximately 1.2 billion dollars. The vast majority of this is alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages. Will the European Union buy Georgian wine? No, it won't. Spaniards, French, and Italians stand with swords in hand, saying, "What are you talking about? This is my market." Georgian wine is not cheap either. There is wine for 1 euro in Europe. So, it can't sell there; what should it do? It sells to Russia. The same applies to mineral waters. Europe asked for 3 years to accept "Borjomi," saying they would examine it. If they liked it after 3 years, they would buy it. The Russians said, "Give it by the wagon, I'll buy it." Anyway, "Borjomi" is the best drink for a hangover in the morning (laughs...). This is the issue. They don't understand such things. Okay, I want to join the European Union, will you buy my goods? No. You don't even give me a security umbrella. The Russians came within 26 kilometers of Tbilisi. What did they do? Therefore, I consider the steps taken by "Georgian Dream" logical and consistent; there is no other way. If there were, I would criticize it too. Armenians also see that it's not working out this way. That's why they are members of the Eurasian Union and want to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. They also say they will join the European Union. They sometimes say that to get aid. They don't give investments to Georgians either. The root of the issue is China's port in the Black Sea. If the Georgian government cancels that agreement tomorrow, it will become a friend of the European Union. I consider this the foolishness of the European Union; compete, why are you afraid of China? Offer better things than China. Municipal elections are in October, and "Georgian Dream" will win again. In that case, what will you say? Many projects in Georgia have been canceled recently. The reason for this is the closure of USAID, the Soros Foundation, and others, or the reduction of their funding. Professional NGO representatives were left unemployed. Now let them go out into the streets; you see how much the number of protesters has decreased. 26,000 large and small NGOs were operating, and 50,000 people worked in this field. These were professional NGO workers. The number of institutional NGOs was 5000. They had 50,000 employees; as soon as a whistle blew, they would rush to the streets. That is, they were not people fighting for an idea. I respect any idea, even a left-wing idea, even if I detest the left. But you shouldn't do it for money. You should do it because you believe in it. *The biggest mistake of the opposition...* - You have been the chairman of the REAL Party for almost 1 year. How much progress has the party made during this period? What are the innovations? - Our Political Committee is the apex of the decision-making mechanism. The chairman is its moderator. He convenes the Political Committee, organizes discussions, and decisions are made through voting. That is, if the chairman of the Political Committee says "yogurt is black," not everyone is obliged to say it's black. During Ilgar's chairmanship, dozens of his proposals did not pass a vote. We used to joke that his proposals never passed a vote. Our management philosophy is different. The Political Committee is the center of power. The chairman is one level higher; he gathers members, organizes discussions, and resolves technical issues. After the amendment to the "Law on Political Parties," resolving technical issues has increased the burden of party work. Lists must be updated once a year. We had just finished, and now we are preparing again. Technical work tires a person. The main functions of the party are to conduct ideological investigations and legislative initiatives. The legislation is strict. You have to be extremely careful not to violate its requirements. As chairman, you are forced to deal with these matters. Recently, a contract had to be signed between the Ministry of Emergency Situations and the office; we worked on that contract for 3 days. Technical work pushes political work into the background. This is bad. In reality, we should be producing policy. There should be proposals every day. The increase in meetings in the regions is a positive aspect. There will be a meeting in Sumgayit. Visits to Sheki, Gabala, and the southern regions are expected. We intend to create a branch of the organization in Karabakh. Let's see where it will be possible. We are an election party. Effectiveness in elections means winning in cities. We attach importance to Baku, Ganja, Sumgayit, Mingachevir, Sheki because 80 percent of the voters live there. If you focus there, you will be ahead in the elections. Therefore, among the plans until January is the expansion of organizations in these cities. From 2026, program documents must be updated. Issues related to constitutional and legislative changes must be updated here. Our old program document included the issue of liberating Karabakh from occupation. Thank God, there is no need for that. When program documents are written, the demands coming from the people are also taken into account. - Do you think the REAL Party has become stronger compared to its previous period – that is, its movement period? - The concept of expectation has changed. When REAL was a movement, it was a bit different. It was an umbrella movement – right-wing, left-wing, liberal, even "libosh" (a derogatory term for liberals) were there. The socio-political situation in the country was also different. There were broader opportunities for discussion. The topics of discussion were different. Now, the weight and significance of a political party are also different. Being a parliamentary party also carries responsibility. We can be criticized. I would like to see argumentative criticisms on social networks and in the media. But let it be comparative; let them ask others, "How many draft laws have you put forward in a year?" For example, this year we are preparing 4 draft laws. We are a parliamentary party; we must come up with legislative initiatives. Whether they are adopted or not is another matter. But this remains in history. We are engaged in political engineering. The general atmosphere has changed a lot. The victory and other issues also played a role there. Socio-economic issues will be the main topic on the agenda. We are slowly feeling this. The parliamentary elections of 2027-28 will be dominated by socio-economic issues. Why should our GDP be lower than Armenia's and Georgia's? Why has the growth been only 0.9 percent? A discourse is needed to answer this. Before, when we criticized, they used to say we were "pouring water on the Armenian mill." Now, thank God, the Armenian mill is also our own mill. In this matter, the government should also act comfortably. We are not saying we know everything correctly. Let's compare what we say with what you say. - Do you have connections with your former famous members? - Our relations with some of them are very good. I don't want to name names; they might not want their names mentioned in the media. We meet with some, talk, and even consult on some issues. With some, yes, relations are tense. But we are not the cause of this tension. There has never been criticism from our side towards them. There have been responses to slander and accusations from their side. We have viewed this normally. There have been those who left REAL while being on the Board. We recently attended his wedding. But he hasn't been in REAL for 3-4 years. The former opposition had an approach: if someone left, they were a traitor. We don't have such a thing. The vast majority are wonderful people. Some left because they didn't believe in the process, thinking there would be no outcome or change. - Among former REAL members, Azer Gasimli is currently in prison. Are you interested in his situation? - Of course. May God open his doors. I already responded to what he said about REAL when he was free. I don't feel the need to respond to it now. But there are people like Sevinj Osmangizi. Two years ago, when Azer was free, she cut and re-published an interview I gave. A person cannot be this vile and foolish. Erkin Gadirli, as a deputy, frequently calls Azer Gasimli's family. We have met his wife, Samira khanim, many times at events. We have always asked if they had any problems. Erkin, in general, as a deputy, a friend, and a former REAL member, called Azer Gasimli's family and asked what help he could provide. There is no problem with this. This is how it should be. - Who is the real opposition in Azerbaijan, and what is your attitude towards those who say you are not the opposition? - What do you call opposition? If you view the opposition as an institutional p, or as a phenomenon, as a societal protest, its potential is extremely high. Especially regarding socio-economic issues, there is a large dissatisfied electorate. Currently, the biggest problem of the opposition is the opposition itself. They tried to be the first among the opposition. They did not work for power. We are newly formed; it will be 5 years since our registration. But during these years, AXCP, Musavat, and other large parties fought to be first, leaving nothing unsaid to each other, discrediting the opposition. In subsequent processes, they wanted the concept of "main opposition" to be given like a medal and a presidential decree. They did not want to come to power because they did not go to elections. Our respected government has an interest in keeping them on the agenda. They brought them to the agenda in any case. Outsiders also look and say, "If the government criticizes them, then they are the main opposition." This is a serious mistake of the government. When we view the opposition as a state institution, the development of this field will be possible, and it will be good for the state itself. For example, in Turkey, the Republican People's Party is in the third or fourth place in the state protocol. This is how it should be viewed. They viewed the opposition as an enemy, making them fight each other. If we think about the future of our state, the concept of opposition needs translators. Without translators, it can turn into chaos. Their translators are political parties. To translate and discuss the protests coming from the depths of society, that's it. This should be the other biggest function of political parties, alongside coming to power. My opinion is also that the government worked well on the unity models of opposition parties, or perhaps it's their own foolishness, I don't know, but they turned it into a fetish. The opposition unites. There have been 11 unity models, 6 movements. These are wrong. Why should the opposition be one? The opposition should build ideological and goal unity. One of the biggest mistakes of our opposition has been that they always built an anti-model. Anti-unions don't work; you have to be pro, for something. There are no ideological unions. For decades, an opposition leader comes out and says, "Everyone should be given 'child money'." You say, "Okay, thank you, you're a leftist." Tomorrow he comes out and says, "You should lower taxes." Oh, you cruel son, when you lower taxes, you can't give "child money." If you give "child money," you have to increase taxes. There is no other way. Such populism and low political rhetoric disgusted the public with politics. I think there will be a need for new translators of the feeling of opposition within society and people. REAL also aspires to this. - Erkin Gadirli, who represents you in parliament, is rarely seen, appears on few channels, and does not use social media. What does he generally do? - He would explain the reason better himself. But as far as I know, he has grievances and resentments towards the media. Erkin is a philosopher. Law is his profession. Perhaps he is a philosopher by birth. He says, "I've told you a ton of intelligent things, and you, for example, write 'Erkin Gadirli coughed while speaking'." One of the popular news stories about him was that Erkin Gadirli's car was taken away. They had put his picture. What kind of news is that?! The car broke down and was taken away by a tow truck. Someone recognized it, took a picture, and it spread throughout the country. Erkin and I have been friends for 24 years. When I talk to him, I say that you can't be offended, the media is always right. Sometimes I scold them. I say, "If you appear more often, I can rest a bit; I'm forced to speak on your behalf too." - Does Erkin Gadirli coordinate his parliamentary activities with you? - 99 percent of our opinions would be the same. On some fundamental issues – such as government and budget reports – it is discussed. But he is completely comfortable and free. And 99 percent of his votes are to our liking. *We must learn Russian...* - Do your children attend public or private schools? - I have 3 children. The eldest has already graduated from university. He graduated from two universities in France, Montpellier and Grenoble. Now he is studying for a master's degree at a Polish university, but he works and lives in France. One of my younger children is in the 11th grade. Both attend public schools. The middle one is in the Azerbaijani section, and the youngest is in the Russian section. - Your child is studying in the Russian section. Finally, there are proposals to close the Russian section in Azerbaijan as well. - Only the youngest of my 3 children studies in the Russian section. My approach is that you must know the language of danger. German, Japanese, English, study in any language you want, but it should be paid for. The Russian sector can also be part of the state education policy. I am against the sudden closure of the current Russian sections. Because there are students in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades. How can that be? One day you must reach a point where you stop admissions to the 1st grade in the coming years, and then those from 2nd to 11th grade finish. After that, there will be no Russian section in state institutions. I cannot understand the excessively aggressive attitude towards the Russian language. You see how Russian is spoken at events of the Organization of Turkic States. When I was in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, I told them, "Remember, one of the biggest Turkic languages is Russian." Why should we give this up?! Let's learn it. Geography is our destiny; where will we run? After the First Karabakh War, we were not learning Armenian. Now, Armenian learners and specialists are emerging. We must learn about our neighbors. We must learn about the world. How will this happen without the Russian language? For example, in Kazakhstan, Russian is a state language and will remain so for many years. If not, what happened to Ukraine could happen to Kazakhstan. The attitude towards the Russian language has changed; we must learn it, but it should not be at the expense of the budget. Education in state institutions should only be in Azerbaijani Turkic. Private schools can be in any language they wish.