Modern.az website continues its series of interviews with foreign journalists. In these interviews, we try to learn about their perceptions of Azerbaijan and Azerbaijanis, explore commonalities between the two countries, and exchange views on other issues.
Our interviewee this time is our colleague from France, Jean-Michel Brundur. He is the director of "Profession Reporter" Agency and the editor-in-chief of musulmansenfrance.fr magazine.
- Mr. Jean-Michel Brun, how would you assess the current state of journalism in France? What are the main challenges faced by French journalists today, and how have these challenges evolved in recent years?
- The extreme politicization of the French press, massively bought by billionaires who support far-right views, openly jeopardizes journalistic ethics and the work of journalists. With a few rare exceptions, we no longer have news media. We only have opinion-based press. The difference compared to previous years is that professional journalists, who are gradually educated for this purpose, are being replaced by columnists and so-called experts who have neither journalistic accuracy nor historical knowledge. In any case, a number of journalists in France want to defend journalistic ethics and press freedom. Journalists are there to inform, not to express their opinions. Governments, in turn, must protect this independence and freedom.
- Social media and digital platforms have fundamentally changed how people access and consume information. Do you think traditional French media has adapted sufficiently to this change?
- French people watch less and less television and do not read newspapers. They prefer to get information from social media, which they consider more free and less controlled by oligarchs. This allows them to avoid official narratives and disinformation. However, these media outlets are completely unregulated and spread fake news as much as serious information. Therefore, the public must be particularly cautious and critical of what is presented to them as verified facts.
- Journalists around the world are observed to take sides, supporting either the government or the opposition. To what extent is this issue relevant in France?
- Opinion journalism, especially in France, has always existed. The difference with the past is that French media outlets have been massively bought by wealthy industrialists who use the press to defend their interests, which are naturally more closely linked to right-wing and far-right politics. This is why the French press promotes a capitalist and Christian view of politics. However, it is impossible to predict the balance of the French political landscape today, whether it will lean right or left, and therefore what the future of the French journalism landscape will be. Now, criticizing the government's position in a certain area does not necessarily mean supporting the political opposition. Furthermore, which opposition? There are as many oppositions as there are parties. A journalist is not a politician. At least, in principle, this is not the case. I observe, I analyze, I inform. Whether the government or the opposition see themselves reflected in this is their problem. It is not my problem.
- Do you consider yourself completely independent as a journalist?
- Again, I am a journalist, not a politician. My role is not to be pro-government or opposition. My role is to stick to the facts and analyze them. I do not strive for objectivity, which is meaningless since journalists see events with their own eyes. I just want to be honest. That is, I do not want to mislead my readers by deliberately distorting reality or omitting parts of it, or by not doing my job properly. My analyses clearly reflect my values: humanism, justice, respect for others, rejection of discrimination and racism...
- How will artificial intelligence change the future of journalism? Do you think this technology mainly poses a threat to journalists - especially in terms of job losses - or is it an important tool that can enhance the quality of journalism and expand its capabilities?
- This is a topic I touched upon in the previous session of the "Shusha Media Forum". Of course, a significant number of articles and reports are produced using artificial intelligence, and this carries all the risks associated with the authenticity of information. These technologies, obviously, pose a threat to employment. Some newsrooms have even cut more staff to replace them with artificial intelligence. This is not surprising: why pay a journalist to write a bad article when artificial intelligence can do it for free? On the other hand, since artificial intelligence uses existing data, this leads to a race to the bottom and can never replace the seriousness and thought of a real journalist. In short, artificial intelligence can help with "cleanliness" in the press. Only real journalists will be able to survive this wave of artificial intelligence. Of course, artificial intelligence can be useful in saving time in research. However, the time spent checking the often imaginary answers of artificial intelligence significantly reduces its usefulness from a journalistic perspective.
- Do you think journalists can contribute to improving relations between France and Azerbaijan, or is this solely the responsibility of political leaders?
- It is clear that the French have lost all trust in their politicians. They have constantly lied, ignored decisions made during referendums, and forced people with laws they did not want. They cannot be trusted. French political parties have no vision. They are servants of lobbyists. This also explains their support for the Armenian diaspora. Despite everything, they fear the wrath of public opinion, which is mainly influenced by the media. Therefore, it is pointless to invite such politicians. They will be your friends on Monday and your enemies on Tuesday. Only journalists can influence public opinion. They need to be protected.
- What is your opinion on the presentation of Azerbaijan in the French media? Do you think information about our country is presented objectively, accurately, and balanced enough, or is a significant part of media coverage characterized by biased approaches?
- This is precisely the whole story of my interest in Azerbaijan. In 1983, when I was heading a French television news agency, I produced several reports about the ASALA attack on the Turkish Airlines counter at Orly airport. Later, with my partner, we wrote a book on the Armenian issue. At that time (and this is largely true today), the only source of information presented to us was the documentation center of the Armenian community, which provided numerous documents. But being good journalists, we also decided to contact the Turkish embassy. We even went to Ankara to interview an Armenian who had been sentenced to death. Naturally, the Turkish version of events differed significantly from the Armenian version. We presented both arguments, and in the end, the Turks, like the Armenians, found the book quite balanced, although we felt that the issue of the 1915 "genocide" was still not very clear to us.
I lost interest in this topic until television studios took over the issue, the "44-day war". Two things struck me: first, only Armenian officials were invited. There were no Azerbaijanis. This is absolutely unethical. Second, they presented "facts" that I knew were inaccurate, especially regarding the presence of Armenian "ancestors" in Karabakh, which was presented as the ancestral homeland of Armenians. In 1983, I conducted extensive interviews with leaders of the Armenian diaspora in France, and Karabakh was never mentioned in our discussions. Serge Afanasyan, an Armenian historian and author of the authoritative book "Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia" published in 1981, also said nothing about it. Later, I went to meet Mr. Rahman Mustafayev, the Azerbaijani ambassador to France at the time. His narrative was perfectly consistent with what I knew about the history of the region, and I decided, with my team, to go to Azerbaijan, a country I had never set foot in before. As you can imagine, our surprise was immense when we discovered, on the one hand, a country that was the complete opposite of what we had been told, and on the other hand, the massive destruction carried out by Armenian separatists for 30 years. Therefore, as a journalist, I felt it was my duty to restore the facts to their authenticity and to bear witness to what I observed on the ground. I have written two books about Azerbaijan, produced about ten reports, and for a while, I was the editor of a newspaper dedicated to the Caucasus. Every French person I met after visiting Azerbaijan expressed the same surprise at the difference between the information in the French media and the realities. But I have observed that, unfortunately, Azerbaijan does not have a real information policy regarding Western media and public opinion. This is regrettable. While it is true that the French media distorts reality when talking about Azerbaijan, it must be admitted that Azerbaijan does not make much effort to reverse this trend.
- In recent years, political tension has been observed between Azerbaijan and France. As a journalist, what do you see as the main reasons for this deterioration in relations? Do you think that, besides political disagreements, media-created perceptions have also played a role?
- I have already largely answered this question. Another reason, of course, is the power of the Armenian diaspora, which is very nationalist and, incidentally, relatively unconcerned about the fate of Armenians in the Caucasus. It has approximately 800,000 members, spread across France's three main cities - Paris, Lyon, and Marseille. Therefore, its weight in elections, especially in our current unstable situation, is very significant. In addition, the two co-chairs of the Dashnak party in France, Frank "Murad" Papazyan, have bought a large number of French journalism schools. This also shows how well Armenians understand the important role of the media in shaping French public opinion and politics.
- France plays an important role in international politics and the European geopolitical decision-making process. In this context, to what extent does the French media influence the formation of public opinion on international conflicts and global geopolitical developments? Do the media limit themselves to an informative role in these processes, or do they also contribute to the formation of certain political perspectives?
- Does France still play a role in European politics? This is a legitimate question to ask. It is clear that the media has a great influence on public opinion. However, as the public increasingly turns to alternative media, the so-called "mainstream" media loses its influence every day. For example, comedian Malek Bentalla's video parodying the famous C News program "L'heure des pros" has garnered four times more views than the program itself.
This is why it is important to invest heavily in alternative journalism - online magazines, social media - and to produce articles, reports, and podcasts of the same quality as those in the mainstream media. Unfortunately, few non-Western countries do this, and Azerbaijan is no exception to this mistake. Note: I am talking about professional journalism, not those whose effectiveness is overestimated and who are no longer truly reliable, giving a false impression of influence.
- Do you think France's regional policy is perceived as balanced and objective by Azerbaijan and Armenia? Is Paris's position on this issue more related to political, humanitarian, or geopolitical factors?
- Of course, France's regional policy is neither balanced nor objective. France presents itself as a referee. But can we accept a referee who favors one team at the expense of the other? A number of consistent reasons explain France's policy towards the Caucasus. The influence of the Armenian diaspora in France has already been noted. There is also a shift to the right in French politics. Emmanuel Macron, contrary to his 2017 election campaign promises, has moved closer to the far-right, even adopting most of its themes. One of these is widespread Islamophobia, which portrays everything related to Islam as a threat to "Western civilization." The demagoguery of these parties quickly equated the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan with a war of Christians against Muslims, which explains their support for the "Nagorno-Karabakh" separatists and their attempts to twin French cities with cities in occupied Karabakh.
Furthermore, multiculturalism is the nightmare of xenophobic and racist French right-wingers. Given that Azerbaijan is a successful example of multiculturalism, it is not surprising that it is a target of French policy. Finally, Azerbaijan's commitment to peoples seeking liberation from colonialism and neocolonialism, especially through the Baku Initiative Group, naturally provokes the anger of right-wingers, who are nostalgic for the colonial era and share the existing white dominance in foreign territories.
- Official Baku has emphasized the importance of removing territorial claims against Azerbaijan from the Armenian Constitution for the signing of a final peace agreement. How is this demand received in France and Europe? Do you think constitutional changes can be considered an essential legal and political guarantee for lasting peace?
- It is difficult to imagine how peace can be achieved with a country whose constitution still contains territorial claims contrary to international law. Europe's position on this issue is insignificant. This is not its concern. For now, Europe keeps its weapons. Much work needs to be done to change the situation. Just a few days ago, European parliamentarians called for the release of Armenian "hostages" imprisoned in Baku, thereby indirectly supporting Armenian separatism.
- The Azerbaijani authorities have repeatedly stated that the peace process between Azerbaijan and Armenia should proceed through direct dialogue between the two countries. Do you think the desire of European states and other foreign actors to actively participate in this process could complicate negotiations by turning them into an additional arena for geopolitical competition?
- The answer is in your question. European countries and Western countries in general are trying to play a role on the international stage. It is clear that these are just the last breaths of a dying animal. Europe no longer has the initiative in its foreign policy as France did during the time of General de Gaulle. It follows the dictates of America, which is on the verge of chaos. Midterm elections may allow for the restoration of some balance. In any case, the solution is only in the hands of the two partners.
- In the context of transport corridors, energy projects, and changing geopolitical realities, the strategic importance of the South Caucasus is increasing. What role do you think France and the European Union should play in the region?
- Of course, France and Europe, despite their superficial political statements, cannot do without Azerbaijan's energy resources and continue to buy gas from Baku. Their mistake, undoubtedly, is that they are not more involved in the economic and geopolitical development of the region. "Old" Europe has never been so deserving of its name.
- Do you think France's sale of weapons to Armenia poses a threat to regional peace?
- Indeed, we recently saw Yerevan display "Caesar" self-propelled howitzers acquired from France, which exported more than 9 million euros worth of weapons to Armenia in 2024. Emmanuel Macron has stated that he will increase military aid to Armenia, particularly by sending "Mistral" defense missiles. Officially, France wants to reduce Armenia's dependence on Russia or Iran for weapons. In reality, the military industry is practically the only industry operating in France, and the government is trying to sell its production by exploiting international conflicts. For example, in 2024, it supplied Ukraine with approximately 900 million euros worth of weapons. This is not good news for peace in the South Caucasus, but good intentions are not the way to conduct politics or business.
- To what extent do you consider it appropriate for the European Union's observation mission in Armenia to remain in the region under the current ceasefire conditions?
- This mission is simply an expression of the European Union's support for Armenia. This support is explained, in particular, by the rise of the far-right in most European countries, with the exception of Spain, which views the Caucasus conflict as a "clash of civilizations." The recent statements by the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Kaja Kallas, are clear on this point: "We will ensure that Armenia does not face external pressure." The question remains: what is the real purpose of the observation mission? Not much beyond a few meaningless gestures. Consequently, its existence or non-existence is of little importance.
- How do you assess Azerbaijan's role in the geo-economic architecture? Do you think Europe should consider Azerbaijan only as a transit country, or as a full-fledged strategic partner?
- Since the start of Russia's war in Ukraine, trade between China and Europe has shifted to the Middle Corridor. This corridor is increasingly seen as an alternative to routes dependent on Russia and traditional sea routes facing increasing costs and security pressures. Before 2022, only 600,000 tons of goods were transported annually. Since then, the volume of freight transport has increased by 62% in 2024, reaching 4.5 million tons. In three years, the number of vehicles has increased sevenfold.
However, the Middle Corridor still presents numerous shortcomings. It still requires three transshipments between China and Europe. Differences in railway gauges between countries and sometimes required bribes complicate operations. Therefore, it is important for the participating countries to invest heavily in the project.
Countries like China, Turkey, Kazakhstan, and of course, Azerbaijan, are doing just that. On the other hand, Europe, which has a commercial, strategic, and security interest in actively participating in the project, is, as always, lagging. In particular, the European Central Bank and Bred Bank promise to allocate a total of 12 billion euros, but these amounts are partly simply reallocated funds from existing programs. As for European companies, especially French companies, they primarily demand guarantees and regulatory stability. Investing in countries that already have significant trade relations with Europe, in particular, would allow them to participate in this project that is already being built.
- If you had the opportunity to make a documentary or a major report about Azerbaijan, which topic would you choose and why?
- Many topics about Azerbaijan can be covered in documentaries. Consequently, Azerbaijan, despite its great cultural wealth, its geopolitical importance, and perhaps most importantly, its social organization, remains largely unknown to the Western world. If I had to choose one first, it would probably be this last aspect: multiculturalism in Azerbaijan. It seems to me that this is a living answer to all those who limit themselves to isolating themselves from others. Multiculturalism and interreligious cooperation, unfortunately, are not a factor of division, as many Western politicians often believe, but a factor of national unity and social peace. This is what I tried to explain in my last book, "Interreligious Cooperation in Azerbaijan: A Model of Unity in Diversity." In this sense, Azerbaijan is a model for the rest of the world.
Personally, another report I would like to write focuses on Azerbaijan's tourist attractions (landscapes, historical monuments, archaeological sites). The best way to change Europeans' minds about Azerbaijan is to encourage them to visit the country.
- During your visits to Azerbaijan, what aspects attracted your attention the most?
- First of all, as I said, the difference between reality and what the French media presented to us. Despite coming out of a difficult period, I found Azerbaijan to be a peaceful country, a pleasant place to live. When I arrived in Baku at the end of the 44-day war, I expected a cold reception, given how France treats Azerbaijan. Nothing of the sort happened; on the contrary, everywhere I went, I met warm, friendly people. Even young people were happy to talk to us.
The ruins of Aghdam, Fuzuli, and Shusha, the traces of the attack on Ganja. Meeting Professor Elchin Ahmadov, the brilliant photographer Reza Deghati, journalist Karim Karimli, French-Azerbaijani Zaur Sadigbayli, ambassadors Rahman Mustafayev and Seymur Fatalayev, and many others, prompted me to write a book about Shusha and the Karabakh conflict titled "Shusha, the Pearl of the Caucasus."
The third discovery was the incredible cultural richness of this country. With Mugham, with poetry and philosophy, with Nizami Ganjavi, and with painting and music... I visited several extraordinary artist studios.
I often recall my first meeting with Sheikhulislam Allahshukur Pashazade, where I was surrounded by the leaders of all religious communities in Azerbaijan. For a Frenchman, this moment had an unreal quality.
And then I cannot help but mention my four meetings with President Ilham Aliyev. In my journalistic life, I have met all kinds of heads of state, ministers, and politicians the world has to offer. Which of them can answer all the questions of their guests, whatever they may be, without notes, with precision and without small talk, for three hours? No one. Except Mr. Ilham Aliyev.
- It would be interesting to know your thoughts on Azerbaijani cuisine and culture.
- This is precisely the approach I used when writing my book "Shusha, the Pearl of the Caucasus," where I transitioned from war to culture, especially culinary culture, and dedicated ten pages to it. I have already touched upon your question about culture. As for cuisine, let's just say I would be happy to share delicious Altchali dishes with you. Karabakh qovurma, a little shakarbura with good tea, is excellent.
- In your opinion, what are the commonalities between the French and Azerbaijani peoples?
- Azerbaijan is a bit like the France of the Caucasus. It is no coincidence that Shusha is called "Little Paris," just like the center of Baku, where you can find Haussmann architecture and, unfortunately, the same traffic jams. Let's not forget that during World War II, Azerbaijanis fought alongside France in the Resistance Movement. France and Azerbaijan also share a common struggle for gender equality, and Azerbaijani women were regularly invited to speak on this topic in the French parliament, until France decided to take the position we know in the 2020 conflict. Incidentally, Azerbaijan preceded France in granting women the right to vote.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, in search of "roots," many French politicians have focused on the "Age of Enlightenment." But five centuries before Voltaire and Rousseau, the predecessor and inspirer of the Enlightenment was the poet Nizami Ganjavi. France and Azerbaijan are naturally connected. Only mediocre and crude politicians cannot see this.
- Finally, as a French journalist covering international news and the South Caucasus, what is the most common misconception about Azerbaijan in the French media and public opinion?
- The blindness of the French people towards Azerbaijan stems from the foolish propaganda of outdated politicians who dream of France withdrawing into isolation. This will not last long. Sooner or later, they will make way for others. We know great leaders and we will know others. Everything in the discourse of the French media is a lie: the idea that Karabakh historically belongs to Armenians, that "ethnic cleansing" was carried out in Karabakh during the only ethnic cleansing committed by Armenia in 1987 and 1992, the insinuation that Azerbaijan is a "bloody dictatorship." Those who claim this should come to Azerbaijan. They will not want to leave! The claim that the criminals arrested during the liberation of the Karabakh territories are innocent "hostages." In short, all this talk reminds me of Goebbels' famous phrase: "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed."
As for the media's opinion, I will only quote the words of the playwright Georges Courteline: "To be considered a fool in the eyes of fools is a gourmet pleasure."
